Well, if you go and take a look over here: http://quizzingnerd.blogspot.com/2007/03/faramir.html - then you will understand what this blog post is going to be about. I decided that my rebuttal of our resident Quizzing Nerd's critique of the movie version of Faramir needed to be slightly more public than email. So here it is. I am addressing each point detailed individually - and Josh, I know you're not trying to antagonize me...but you asked for it!
First objection: Faramir as a character is inconsistent in the movie. I disagree (aren't you surprised). Faramir, like all humans, is not perfect. Yes, he sees the warning signs in Frodo and Smeagol and learns that Boromir was corrupted by the Ring. But Denethor's instructions to Boromir were to bring Isildur's Bane at all costs, and Faramir desperately wants to be valued in his father's eyes. Also, like Boromir and
Denethor, Faramir is only human and thus has human weaknesses - even then the Ring could have conceivably been working on him, just like it did on Boromir. In fact, I would be surprised if it hadn't. He has to weigh the choice in his mind. Take the Ring to Minas Tirith and to Denethor, and finally gain his father's approval - something he's longed for practically since birth - or do what he knows is right and forever lose any hope of gaining respect from his father, and risk his fury once he finds out Isildur's Bane has slipped through his fingers. In Denethor's eyes this would be another failure of a useless second son, and Faramir knows it. So is it really any surprise that he chooses to take the hobbits to Minas Tirith? He too believes that there is strength left in the race of Men, and that the Ring can be used for good.
Another thing you pointed out, oh Quizzing Nerd (:D) is that others have resisted the power of the Ring and so it's not ridiculous to expect Faramir to do the same. You use Galadriel and Gandalf as examples. However, Galadriel is an immortal elf, wiser by far than any man living and wary of the lures of Sauron. She has seen what destruction he can wreak. And Gandalf is practically divine, an emissary of the Valar from the Undying Lands. He's basically the Middle-Earth equivalent of an angel. Is it any surprise that he can resist the Ring's power? Sauron himself is of the same race as Gandalf. Had Frodo remained with the Fellowship, even his other loyal companions could have turned on him. He knows this. That's why he runs away. Aragorn also resists the power of the Ring, but his ancestors died under its power and he knows better than any what it can do.
Faramir doesn't. This is the first he's heard of the Ring's powers, and from two hobbits and a slimy creature he's never met before. What with the Ring's powers combined with his desire to please his father, is it really any surprise he initially decides to take them to Minas Tirith?
I quote: "One last thing I must touch on is that, in the movie, one of the main tempations for Faramir is that his dad might start to value him if he brings the ring back. But Faramir should know from what he's seen of his father that giving the ring to him would be idiocy; he would misuse it and Sauron would eventually gain victory."
How should he know this? Faramir has been posted in Ithilien and Osgiliath for quite some time, and does not often return to Minas Tirith. Denethor closets himself for long periods of time, and it's entirely plausible that father and son very rarely see each other. Faramir may not be aware of the extent to which his father's mind has been twisted. Faramir is not all-knowing, and as I point out above, this is the first time he's seen or heard of the Ring.
Again: "He should also know that his father is becoming so twisted that Faramir giving him the ring wouldn't alter his view of Faramir in the least. Faramir values the fate of Middle-Earth more then he values the chance of respect from his father, and, if the moviemakers made him consistent to his character, he wouldn't have been tempted for a moment by that."
He does value the fate of Middle-Earth more. But initially he's convinced himself that this is for the good of the fate of Middle-Earth, not to destroy the Ring but to use it against Sauron. As you no doubt remember, this thought obsessed Boromir for much of FotR. Faramir is not an elf like Galadriel or a Maia like Gandalf. He's human, and as such has human weaknesses. Even the fact that he eventually chooses the right way sets him apart. Boromir would not have done that.
And my last point: What PJ does with Faramir's character in the movie is vastly more developmentally useful in a short time than what it would have been if he'd followed the book. If he'd followed the book, the hobbits would have met a nice guy who gives them food and directions and sends them off with a wave and a smile. Whoop-de-doo. Wheras in the movie (TTT) we get an intriguing prequel to the father/son angst in RotK, and are far more interested than we otherwise would have been.
I'm done. I know several people who will have skimmed all that. You know who you are. Anyway, I hope you found it interesting, Josh (aka Quizzing Nerd).
59 days!
~Sil
[After Sarah and Everett were sitting due to errors]
Josh: "Aw, c'mon, let 'em jump. I need some competition."
Amy/Erin: "OHHHHHH!"
14 comments:
OK, that was a very good response. :) What we need to do here is figure out exactly what we're debating.
Are we arguing how Peter Jackson should have done it in the movie? In that case, I say he should have compromised between the two different sides of the spectrum and done a Faramir who was tempted but resisted more quicky than the Faramir in the movie. So all the points Faramir has to decide on - father/son angst, etc. - are introduced, and he's still an interesting character that we'll want to keep track of for the rest of the movie; but the plot from the book isn't changed significantly, and he doesn't bring the hobbits back to Osgiliath. That probably would have made everyone mad anyone, but I think it's better.
Or are we debating how strong Faramir is as a character and whether or not he could resist the ring? In which case it depends on whether we're talking about the movie or book version - the book version is strong enough - read it again, you'll see he says that "even if it was lying by the wayside" he wouldn't pick it up, because he knows that a weapon of evil cannot be used for good. (He knows that because he's wise and that's a basic principle) However, the problem with that is that we don't know whether the ring was affecting his mind the book, like it was in the movie. And the movie one...well, that's part of the debate.
Or, are we debating whether the movie or book Faramir is better? I'd say book, because he's much more of an individual instead of like Boromir and his father. But, obviously, that's debateable. :D
If we don't decide on a few things we can agree on, the argument will just go endlessly around in circles. So, what is it?
I think it's a mix :) Though I'm not sure if there's really any two bits we agree on, seeing as I fully support the movie and you...don't.
:P
So, it's a matter of opinion and we can agree to disagree? :)
It appears so, as I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine :D
~Sil
Sorry, you young 'uns, but I have to weigh in here.
The Faramir in the book is much richer and deeper. There is a profound example here that shouldn't be missed, particularly by young students. What sets the book Faramir apart is the fact that he is a lettered man (he has studied the ancient texts). This gives him a breadth of perspective and depth of humility (a great combination) that has been all but lost in Gondor since the elder days. Faramir was thought strange in his land because of his love of learning (his people had become quite pragmatic). His learning did not make him any less of a warrior, but it did make him a better judge of character. Therefore, it is entirely plausable that - after an initial temptation to take the ring - he would send the hobbits on their way.
This could have been demonstrated quite effectively in the movie, but the (post)modern worldview of the screenwriters and director wouldn't get the subtlety of a classical education perspective. This was probably a good call for Hollywood, because most people watching the TT wouldn't have clued in.
I anticipate the charge, "Tolkien wasn't writing allegory!" Agreed. However, there is much to learn about the ways of man in these books.
Josh's Dad
Well, I sort of tried to say that in that it cheapens Faramir's character, but, of course, I'm no pastor, so I can't put it so elegantly. And I didn't even consider any of that being different from everyone else in Gondor thing, I was just thinking that it seemed silly for Faramir to be so much like Boromir's clone instead of his brother.
(Amy, do you get the feeling that both of our arguments just got owned? :P)
On Josh's blog, when the Faramir topic arose, I left the comment "I don't understand."
I believe that comment should be duplicated at this moment.
Although I HAVE read each blog entry, plus Josh's dad's rebuttle, and I'd have to say his is the most persuasive. Most likely because of the increased length of words :P
The skimming reference was directed, perhaps, at me. True enough.
Well, I skimmed the first couple times I looked at it, but once I realized people are actually serious about this stuff, I figured I better read it.
I'm not even going to reply to that.
So why I'm commenting, I don't know. It my blog and I can if I want :D
~Sil
Reply to my dad's reply, you mean? Or Erin?
You're becoming pretty popular; look at all the comments on your posts now. :)
Your dad's post was brilliant (thank you very much, by the way, Mr Stauffer) I was referring to Erin :P
Yes, aren't I? I quite like it. Now I need Robyn over here for it to be complete *whistles*
~Sil
So I'm getting the cold shoulder, now, am I?
Well. I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to make my own blog and NOT give you the url. Take that!
Bahahaha
Ok, I'll admit it, I'm weak... I made a blog and I'm giving you the url. or at least a link to it through my name.
Post a Comment